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Ben Cook's avatar

Hi Trey,

I appreciate your work, and this was a very well-written and interesting piece. That said, as one who thinks universalism and annihilationism are the only two exegetically feasible options, I disagree with much of what you say here. A couple brief observations:

1) You seem to suggest it's an argument against a universalist-consistent reading of the Sheep and the Goats passage that the passage simply ends with no suggestion of the redemption of the goats. But surely this is a non-sequitur. Christ's aim in this context was to threaten eschatological judgment in order to prompt repentance, not to explain how, when, or why there might be a further redemption beyond the aionion chastisement. Indeed, elaborating on the latter might have distracted from this repentance-prompting aim. Moreover, even in everyday contexts, we frequently make threats of certain consequences, knowing those consequences are finite, but omitting to mention that fact because it would distract from the point we're trying to make or the aim we have. When a parent threatens their children with some punishment, they typically don't say "And remember, after I send you to your room, you'll eventually come out, we'll reconcile, and you'll be perfectly happy again!" (even though they typically know this is what will subsequently occur). Why is that? Because in some contexts, for some audiences, we know that the behavior or remorse we're trying to prompt might not occur if we went on to elaborate about how everything would ultimately be alright in the end.

2) You wrongly accuse Hart and others of thinking 'aionion' can never have both a quantitative and a qualitative sense in a given passage. But to my knowledge, neither Hart nor any prominent universalist has ever suggested such a thing (or if they have, they need not). Instead, what they suggest is that this term can in some contexts have an exclusively quantitative meaning, in others an exclusively qualitative meaning, and in still others both. The suggestion, then, is just that, based on other passages in the NT implying universal salvation, we can reasonably take the sense in the Sheep and the Goats passage to be purely qualitative (though in other contexts we might interpret it both qualitatively and quantitatively).

At any rate, those are just a couple of my thoughts. Keep up the great work!

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Nicholas Smith's avatar

I come at this post from an angle which is not the hart and Kimmel position exactly as I have misgivings over certain premises of Hart’s which lead to a passive subject who’s incapable of veering from desiring the Good even as he pursues other goods which more or less lead his tropos into disjunction with his logoi and thus toward ill-being.

The major issues I take with your argument here is two pronged. The first prong is that many parables and sayings are pastoral and to encourage repentance. There is not in my mind any way to reconcile the New Testament’s clear annuity in my mind without keeping this in mind.

The second prong is that you picked the only quote of Maximus the Confessor I remember to potentially imply eternal annihilation or distance or whatever. Yet Maximus asks in another text essentially where will we be when God is all in all if we don’t participate in his energies through piety and virtue in this life? This may at first seem to confirm your impression but I think it is a) pastoral and b) who can go through this life and not participate to even an infinitesimal amount in God? The Holy Spirit is in all aspects of conscience law or adoption, and each to the degree possible should seek to abide in it. But even I’ll-being is not non-being, it’s a deficit of being. Thus in a sense this allows us if we follow Issac the Syrian and Gregory of Nyssa, to develop an idea of what occurs when we pass out of this world and open our eyes to eternal life. Those who have labored receive double wages and crowns, those who have been humbled and repented are purified by God’s love, and those who have been self loving and full of corruption take a long time for Gods love to become not an indictment but the means of turning them inside through that tiny bit of them that couldn’t help but remain in God.

The idea you presented that disturbed me was one which Aquinas held and I cannot sympathize with: “The idea that the judgment of the wicked makes possible the blessings of the righteous is a persistent Scriptural pattern from Genesis to Revelation.” What about Paul who kicks a sinner out of the church that he might be refined by fire. What about Christs descent into hades rendering him everywhere present and the gospel preached even there. When is death swallowed up in victory and hades despoiled?

If Christ abandons the flock for the one sheep and he speaks of the Father as running out to the prodigal son, in what way can we say he is no longer capable of the impossible.

Now with all this said I tend to hold universal salvation in tension with the necessary fear of Gehenna, but as I’ve grown older my motivation is not to escape hell but to become the person who God can work through to help raise people out of it. We pray for the dead and the liturgy is always offered by all and for all. Let us not give up on anyone and if necessary as st. Silouan did, think of ourselves as the one who will be the last in hell.

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